Part 2

Names

83 min read
Table of Contents
Socrates
Socrates

How does the legislator make names? He looks to what?

To what does the carpenter look in making the shuttle? He looks to that which is naturally fitted to act as a shuttle.

Suppose the shuttle is broken, will he make another, looking to the broken one? or will he look to the form according to which he made the other?

Hermogenes
To the latter, I think.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates

He can be justly called the true or ideal shuttle.

Whatever shuttles are wanted, for the manufacture of garments, thin or thick, of flaxen, woollen, or other material, ought all of them to have the true form of the shuttle.

Whatever is the shuttle best adapted to each kind of work, that ought to be the form which the maker produces in each case.

Socrates
Socrates
The same holds of other instruments: when a man has discovered the instrument which is naturally adapted to each work, he must express this natural form, and not others which he fancies, in the material, whatever it may be, which he employs; for example, he ought to know how to put into iron the forms of awls adapted by nature to their several uses?
Hermogenes
Certainly.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And how to put into wood forms of shuttles adapted by nature to their uses?
Hermogenes
True.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
For the several forms of shuttles naturally answer to the several kinds of webs; and this is true of instruments in general.
Hermogenes
Yes.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Then, as to names: ought not our legislator also to know how to put the true natural name of each thing into sounds and syllables, and to make and give all names with a view to the ideal name, if he is to be a namer in any true sense? And we must remember that different legislators will not use the same syllables. For neither does every smith, although he may be making the same instrument for the same purpose, make them all of the same iron. The form must be the same, but the material may vary, and still the instrument may be equally good of whatever iron made, whether in Hellas or in a foreign country;—there is no difference.
Hermogenes
Very true.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And the legislator, whether he be Hellene or barbarian, is not therefore to be deemed by you a worse legislator, provided he gives the true and proper form of the name in whatever syllables; this or that country makes no matter.
Hermogenes
Quite true.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
But who then is to determine whether the proper form is given to the shuttle, whatever sort of wood may be used? the carpenter who makes, or the weaver who is to use them?
Hermogenes
I should say, he who is to use them, Socrates.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And who uses the work of the lyre-maker? Will not he be the man who knows how to direct what is being done, and who will know also whether the work is being well done or not?
Hermogenes
Certainly.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And who is he?
Hermogenes
The player of the lyre.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And who will direct the shipwright?
Hermogenes
The pilot.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And who will be best able to direct the legislator in his work, and will know whether the work is well done, in this or any other country? Will not the user be the man?
Hermogenes
Yes.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And this is he who knows how to ask questions?
Hermogenes
Yes.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And how to answer them?
Hermogenes
Yes.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And him who knows how to ask and answer you would call a dialectician?
Hermogenes
Yes; that would be his name.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Then the work of the carpenter is to make a rudder, and the pilot has to direct him, if the rudder is to be well made.
Hermogenes
True.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And the work of the legislator is to give names, and the dialectician must be his director if the names are to be rightly given?
Hermogenes
That is true.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Then, Hermogenes, I should say that this giving of names can be no such light matter as you fancy, or the work of light or chance persons; and Cratylus is right in saying that things have names by nature, and that not every man is an artificer of names, but he only who looks to the name which each thing by nature has, and is able to express the true forms of things in letters and syllables.
Hermogenes
I cannot answer you, Socrates; but I find a difficulty in changing my opinion all in a moment, and I think that I should be more readily persuaded, if you would show me what this is which you term the natural fitness of names.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
My good Hermogenes, I have none to show. Was I not telling you just now (but you have forgotten), that I knew nothing, and proposing to share the enquiry with you? But now that you and I have talked over the matter, a step has been gained; for we have discovered that names have by nature a truth, and that not every man knows how to give a thing a name.
Hermogenes
Very good.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And what is the nature of this truth or correctness of names? That, if you care to know, is the next question.
Hermogenes
Certainly, I care to know.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Then reflect.
Hermogenes
How shall I reflect?
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
The true way is to have the assistance of those who know, and you must pay them well both in money and in thanks; these are the Sophists, of whom your brother, Callias, has—rather dearly—bought the reputation of wisdom. But you have not yet come into your inheritance, and therefore you had better go to him, and beg and entreat him to tell you what he has learnt from Protagoras about the fitness of names.
Hermogenes
But how inconsistent should I be, if, whilst repudiating Protagoras and his truth (“Truth” was the title of the book of Protagoras; compare Theaet.), I were to attach any value to what he and his book affirm!
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Then if you despise him, you must learn of Homer and the poets.
Hermogenes
And where does Homer say anything about names, and what does he say?
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
He often speaks of them; notably and nobly in the places where he distinguishes the different names which Gods and men give to the same things. Does he not in these passages make a remarkable statement about the correctness of names? For the Gods must clearly be supposed to call things by their right and natural names; do you not think so?
Hermogenes
Why, of course they call them rightly, if they call them at all. But to what are you referring?
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates

Do you not know what he says about the river in Troy who had a single combat with Hephaestus?

“Whom,” as he says, “the Gods call Xanthus, and men call Scamander.”

Hermogenes
I remember.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates

Well, and about this river—to know that he ought to be called Xanthus and not Scamander—is not that a solemn lesson? Or about the bird which, as he says,

“The Gods call Chalcis, and men Cymindis:”

to be taught how much more correct the name Chalcis is than the name Cymindis—do you deem that a light matter? Or about Batieia and Myrina? (Compare Il. “The hill which men call Batieia and the immortals the tomb of the sportive Myrina.”) And there are many other observations of the same kind in Homer and other poets. Now, I think that this is beyond the understanding of you and me; but the names of Scamandrius and Astyanax, which he affirms to have been the names of Hector’s son, are more within the range of human faculties, as I am disposed to think; and what the poet means by correctness may be more readily apprehended in that instance: you will remember I dare say the lines to which I refer? (Il.)

Hermogenes
I do.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Let me ask you, then, which did Homer think the more correct of the names given to Hector’s son—Astyanax or Scamandrius?
Hermogenes
I do not know.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
How would you answer, if you were asked whether the wise or the unwise are more likely to give correct names?
Hermogenes
I should say the wise, of course.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And are the men or the women of a city, taken as a class, the wiser?
Hermogenes
I should say, the men.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And Homer, as you know, says that the Trojan men called him Astyanax (king of the city); but if the men called him Astyanax, the other name of Scamandrius could only have been given to him by the women.
Hermogenes
That may be inferred.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And must not Homer have imagined the Trojans to be wiser than their wives?
Hermogenes
To be sure.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Then he must have thought Astyanax to be a more correct name for the boy than Scamandrius?
Hermogenes
Clearly.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates

And what is the reason of this? Let us consider:—does he not himself suggest a very good reason, when he says,

“For he alone defended their city and long walls”?

This appears to be a good reason for calling the son of the saviour king of the city which his father was saving, as Homer observes.

Hermogenes
I see.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Why, Hermogenes, I do not as yet see myself; and do you?
Hermogenes
No, indeed; not I.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
But tell me, friend, did not Homer himself also give Hector his name?
Hermogenes
What of that?
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
The name appears to me to be very nearly the same as the name of Astyanax—both are Hellenic; and a king (anax) and a holder (ektor) have nearly the same meaning, and are both descriptive of a king; for a man is clearly the holder of that of which he is king; he rules, and owns, and holds it. But, perhaps, you may think that I am talking nonsense; and indeed I believe that I myself did not know what I meant when I imagined that I had found some indication of the opinion of Homer about the correctness of names.
Hermogenes
I assure you that I think otherwise, and I believe you to be on the right track.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
There is reason, I think, in calling the lion’s whelp a lion, and the foal of a horse a horse; I am speaking only of the ordinary course of nature, when an animal produces after his kind, and not of extraordinary births;—if contrary to nature a horse have a calf, then I should not call that a foal but a calf; nor do I call any inhuman birth a man, but only a natural birth. And the same may be said of trees and other things. Do you agree with me?
Hermogenes
Yes, I agree.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Very good. But you had better watch me and see that I do not play tricks with you. For on the same principle the son of a king is to be called a king. And whether the syllables of the name are the same or not the same, makes no difference, provided the meaning is retained; nor does the addition or subtraction of a letter make any difference so long as the essence of the thing remains in possession of the name and appears in it.
Hermogenes
What do you mean?
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
A very simple matter. I may illustrate my meaning by the names of letters, which you know are not the same as the letters themselves with the exception of the four epsilon, upsilon, omicron, omega; the names of the rest, whether vowels or consonants, are made up of other letters which we add to them; but so long as we introduce the meaning, and there can be no mistake, the name of the letter is quite correct. Take, for example, the letter beta—the addition of eta, tau, alpha, gives no offence, and does not prevent the whole name from having the value which the legislator intended—so well did he know how to give the letters names.
Hermogenes
I believe you are right.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And may not the same be said of a king? a king will often be the son of a king, the good son or the noble son of a good or noble sire; and similarly the offspring of every kind, in the regular course of nature, is like the parent, and therefore has the same name. Yet the syllables may be disguised until they appear different to the ignorant person, and he may not recognize them, although they are the same, just as any one of us would not recognize the same drugs under different disguises of colour and smell, although to the physician, who regards the power of them, they are the same, and he is not put out by the addition; and in like manner the etymologist is not put out by the addition or transposition or subtraction of a letter or two, or indeed by the change of all the letters, for this need not interfere with the meaning. As was just now said, the names of Hector and Astyanax have only one letter alike, which is tau, and yet they have the same meaning. And how little in common with the letters of their names has Archepolis (ruler of the city)—and yet the meaning is the same. And there are many other names which just mean “king.” Again, there are several names for a general, as, for example, Agis (leader) and Polemarchus (chief in war) and Eupolemus (good warrior); and others which denote a physician, as Iatrocles (famous healer) and Acesimbrotus (curer of mortals); and there are many others which might be cited, differing in their syllables and letters, but having the same meaning. Would you not say so?
Hermogenes
Yes.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
The same names, then, ought to be assigned to those who follow in the course of nature?
Hermogenes
Yes.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And what of those who follow out of the course of nature, and are prodigies? for example, when a good and religious man has an irreligious son, he ought to bear the name not of his father, but of the class to which he belongs, just as in the case which was before supposed of a horse foaling a calf.
Hermogenes
Quite true.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Then the irreligious son of a religious father should be called irreligious?
Hermogenes
Certainly.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
He should not be called Theophilus (beloved of God) or Mnesitheus (mindful of God), or any of these names: if names are correctly given, his should have an opposite meaning.
Hermogenes
Certainly, Socrates.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Again, Hermogenes, there is Orestes (the man of the mountains) who appears to be rightly called; whether chance gave the name, or perhaps some poet who meant to express the brutality and fierceness and mountain wildness of his hero’s nature.
Hermogenes
That is very likely, Socrates.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
And his father’s name is also according to nature.
Hermogenes
Clearly.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Yes, for as his name, so also is his nature; Agamemnon (admirable for remaining) is one who is patient and persevering in the accomplishment of his resolves, and by his virtue crowns them; and his continuance at Troy with all the vast army is a proof of that admirable endurance in him which is signified by the name Agamemnon. I also think that Atreus is rightly called; for his murder of Chrysippus and his exceeding cruelty to Thyestes are damaging and destructive to his reputation—the name is a little altered and disguised so as not to be intelligible to every one, but to the etymologist there is no difficulty in seeing the meaning, for whether you think of him as ateires the stubborn, or as atrestos the fearless, or as ateros the destructive one, the name is perfectly correct in every point of view. And I think that Pelops is also named appropriately; for, as the name implies, he is rightly called Pelops who sees what is near only (o ta pelas oron).
Hermogenes
How so?
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Because, according to the tradition, he had no forethought or foresight of all the evil which the murder of Myrtilus would entail upon his whole race in remote ages; he saw only what was at hand and immediate,—or in other words, pelas (near), in his eagerness to win Hippodamia by all means for his bride. Every one would agree that the name of Tantalus is rightly given and in accordance with nature, if the traditions about him are true.
Hermogenes
And what are the traditions?
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Many terrible misfortunes are said to have happened to him in his life—last of all, came the utter ruin of his country; and after his death he had the stone suspended (talanteia) over his head in the world below—all this agrees wonderfully well with his name. You might imagine that some person who wanted to call him Talantatos (the most weighted down by misfortune), disguised the name by altering it into Tantalus; and into this form, by some accident of tradition, it has actually been transmuted. The name of Zeus, who is his alleged father, has also an excellent meaning, although hard to be understood, because really like a sentence, which is divided into two parts, for some call him Zena, and use the one half, and others who use the other half call him Dia; the two together signify the nature of the God, and the business of a name, as we were saying, is to express the nature. For there is none who is more the author of life to us and to all, than the lord and king of all. Wherefore we are right in calling him Zena and Dia, which are one name, although divided, meaning the God through whom all creatures always have life (di on zen aei pasi tois zosin uparchei). There is an irreverence, at first sight, in calling him son of Cronos (who is a proverb for stupidity), and we might rather expect Zeus to be the child of a mighty intellect. Which is the fact; for this is the meaning of his father’s name: Kronos quasi Koros (Choreo, to sweep), not in the sense of a youth, but signifying to chatharon chai acheraton tou nou, the pure and garnished mind (sc. apo tou chorein). He, as we are informed by tradition, was begotten of Uranus, rightly so called (apo tou oran ta ano) from looking upwards; which, as philosophers tell us, is the way to have a pure mind, and the name Uranus is therefore correct. If I could remember the genealogy of Hesiod, I would have gone on and tried more conclusions of the same sort on the remoter ancestors of the Gods,—then I might have seen whether this wisdom, which has come to me all in an instant, I know not whence, will or will not hold good to the end.
Hermogenes
You seem to me, Socrates, to be quite like a prophet newly inspired, and to be uttering oracles.
Hermogenes
Socrates
Socrates
Yes, Hermogenes, and I believe that I caught the inspiration from the great Euthyphro of the Prospaltian deme, who gave me a long lecture which commenced at dawn: he talked and I listened, and his wisdom and enchanting ravishment has not only filled my ears but taken possession of my soul, and to-day I shall let his superhuman power work and finish the investigation of names—that will be the way; but to-morrow, if you are so disposed, we will conjure him away, and make a purgation of him, if we can only find some priest or sophist who is skilled in purifications of this sort.
Hermogenes
With all my heart; for am very curious to hear the rest of the enquiry about names.
Hermogenes

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